Here’s a speculative question I’ve been mulling over: "What did the Cinder King whisper to Render at his Breaking that drove him into an insane rage?
Possible answers:
That Zara is responsible for the Cinder King’s escape. Had she left the ten-pointed crown on the throne in Dar he could never have escaped, but she took the last point and now his power grows again.
That the Living God is responsible for the Cinder King’s power. The same power that let the Living God create nine chosen is the same power that the Cinder King now uses to break his enemies.
That the Living God lied to Valsim, he was never going to be able to defeat the Cinder King, merely slow him down. He was always going to be a sacrificial lamb.
We have seen some evidence that when a Chosen is Broken it damages, maybe even kills the god.
When Nyx was Broken the moon shattered.
When Blighter was Broken alchemy was corrupted.
But when Render was Broken, Zora emerged from the wilderness, seemingly unaffected. What makes the Living God’s Chosen unaffected by their brother’s Breaking?
For the last one, I have run with the Chosen of the Living God each having their own related sub-dominion or theme.
So Render was the Chosen over honour, and with his Breaking, all supernatural oaths made to or by Chosen have become inert, whole Zora has dominion over skill in war.
Zora remains affected, though, in a specific way - either Render or Zora must die before next summer, their coexistence unsustainable.
Most people know that the Living God created nine Chosen, but very few people know why. The answer is that The Living God has anticipated the coming of the Cinder King (or something like him) for a very long time. The Living God’s Chosen are insurance: so long as they live in the world, he cannot be corrupted like the other gods in a Breaking. Unless the Cinder King can kill or Break each of his Chosen, he will be untouched by the Cinder King’s corruption.
In fact, I think I’ll use both, and say the sub-dominions corrupt, but the Living God stays insulated as long as he has an uncorrupted Chosen.
The sting in the tail is that either the disease or the immune system will win - either Zora or Render will stand, and that will determine the outcome.
This makes me think - is the Cinder King the Dead Emperor returned as effectively a revenant to take revenge on the Chosen who killed him? It would be interesting to correlate those who were Broken vs the Chosen who killed him etc…This would explain why he has the crown of fire (mostly)…
I know I’m late to the thread, but one of the questions I have is whether or not the Blooded of Royin can also be Broken. I’d speculate that they can, particularly if the Chosen and if Dar itself can. The question is more whether or not they are worth the Cinder King’s time. But it would be crazy if the Cinder King had an army of Broken Blooded, kind of an elite legion of infantry.
Also, I have a wild speculation for Andrastus: The region has only one god, but that god has a sort of multiple personality situation going on, thereby partly contributing to the divisive chaos and conflict in the region.
Awesome thread! What do you guys make up of the fact that “[a]nimals cannot be raised from the dead” (p 197)? Would there be a specific reason why only humans are susceptible to become undead? It makes me wonder if there is a link with the Royin’s Blooded or god. That may also inform why the detailed Brokens’ disposition towards the Horned One seems slightly more focused on their portfolio (the natural world).
Animals can’t be undead but they can be blighted, and controlled by undead, so I guess the difference is not so great… especially since not all Brokens’ troops are themselves undead…
According to the Panyar moon priests, humans are distinct and separated from the natural world, that is why we must actively learn how to live in harmony with nature because it is not our natural instinct to do so. The priests claim that when a human dies and the soul departs it leaves a void that certain magics can inhabit. In contrast, there is no “soul” that departs an animal at death; it remains a part of the Horned One’s Great Red Cycle of birth and consumption. -Bhimabai Ambedkar, Bartan Scholar.
@Udachnik
I do agree that it might be a matter of soul, with Breaker’s hexed and incorporeal undead supporting a duality of body and soul/spirit.
Another link being the Panyar not taking animal names as they belong to the Horned One. So even though animals can be blighted and even controlled by the undead, the Cinder King cannot “hack” what you–I mean, what Supreme Teacher Ambedkar calls the Horned One’s Great Red Cycle. That could certainly change should the Cinder King manage to break the Horned One’s Chosen.
@A_B might be absolutely right that I’m grasping at straws here, but I do think that the limitations of a power to raise the undead can bring light into the nature of that power. If an exception confirms a rule, then it can also reveal that rule. Canonically, we know that the Cinder King is not the Living God, but that they still are strongly related in one way or another. Maybe this relation explains why only soul-bearing creatures can be turned undead. The relationship between the Cinder King and the Living God shows a certain kinship (figuratively), the one with the Horned One is one of rivalry.
Again, I wonder whether/how the Royin god factors into this. Blood and the power that runs through it count among the central themes of BoB and it manifests in the Royin god through Blooded Heroes. A Chosen’s divine power passes through blood without the offspring’s consent as an inherited trait.
I find interesting that no Chosen manifested to defend the Confederacy. There might be a number of reasons for this, but it is notable that the Royin god is the only one–so far, and unless I’m mistaken–that left its people to die when the Cinder King showed up at their door. Could it be that the Royin’s god was aware of the Cinder King’s power and afraid of that power? Or did the Cinder King had already defeated/usurped him years before (perhaps less likely than the former)?
I’m assuming that “manifested” here means that there was no Chosen at all, as opposed to there was a Chosen but no one knew about it. Or maybe the Royin God tried to find a suitable Chosen, but no one accepted. I find that there was no attempt to Choose more plausible.
Hey I don’t know if this has already been discussed or clarified, but since Render is one of the Living God’s Chosen and is therefore older than the nine chosen in the Eastern Kingdoms, am I correct in saying that there are 8 Chosen (Shreya and four other survivors of the Breaking along with Horned One, Zora and the Aldermark Twin) alongside 7 broken (Blighter, Binder, Breaker, Render, Aldermark Twin, Original Broken and missing Eastern Kingdoms Chosen)
Okay just wanted to check if my calculations are wrong and that there are either seven or eight surviving chosen. By my understand if nine chosen were created in the east but Render is not one of them since it says he basically showed up during the year the Great Breaking took place, there would be another chosen of the nine that survived it, meaning it would be five survivors of the great breaking.
Apologies if Im understanding something wrong and Render was one of the nine!
@Stras didn’t correct me up above when I put Render in the lists of the Broken/Chosen, but I suppose there’s a little ambiguity. The book suggests that the Living God created all his Chosen at the same time, meaning Render was Chosen centuries before the Cinder King appeared. OTOH, that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been a part of the initial Chosen who opposed the Cinder King, just that he wasn’t Chosen at that moment in time.
Yeah I guess the thing that drew me was the possibility that because of Render being a Living God Chosen, it would mean that there is another one we don’t know about. The only thing that makes me think he isn’t one of the nine is that it says in the book that he “stepped out of the mountains three years ago” and if that’s three years from the current date it would mean he showed up the year the Great Breaking took place (845 OEF) and therefore there is an extra Chosen from the nine that appeared (843 OEF)
Render was one of the initial nine and one of the 5 Broken in 845 OEF.
Udanchik this is your thread, and I respect the speculation—but this isn’t speculation and I wanted to clear it up. ^_~
The text says that 9 Chosen “arose” (p 2) or “appeared” (p 354). We don’t say “were created then” or “were chosen then” because there’s some weirdness there specifically with Vlaisim/Render. He was definitely one of the nine that assembled in 843 and was broken in 845 (you can cross reference, because his Breaking occurred during the siege of Karlsburg - p. 203).
I’ll vanish and leave you to wild theories again. Cheers all!
Thank you for responding and clearing that up! Like I said I guess I misread the text in the book so apologies for any confusion I could have caused haha.
